Using self-leveling underlayment takes careful prep work. If you are good with a trowel and understand how to set up and use screeds as a guide for leveling or forming the mortar, pouring a traditional mortar bed may be a good alternative to tile backer board, especially on uneven or sloping floors. This creates a strong, waterproof tile backer that also functions as an uncoupling membrane. The use of modified thinset adhesive could result in an inadequate bond and could lead to possible delamination. Additionally, the drywall should be primed with a latex primer before applying the Kerdi membrane. 120 sq feet including the floor. Additionally, if the cement board isnt waterproof, it can also cause mold and mildew issues, as well as dry wall damage from the moisture seeping through. Cut the shower tray to size. On a vertical surface, very little moisture . It is important to waterproof Hardie board to make it more water-resistant, as well as to protect the materials from the elements. If any is found, wait a few more hours and then re-inspect. When I tried putting up the first sheets, which were only 36" x 39", and even though I had SOAKED the hardi, to the point water was pooling on the floor, the thinset was already drying before I got the Kerdi up, and I couldn't get it to adhere properly no matter how hard I tried. Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology. How do you show the depth of a hole in a drawing? The niche' intermediate shelf isn't actually attached, to enable specific placement for each unique tiling application. Required fields are marked *. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. What is the proper substrate to use on tiled wall? Like the example above. (3ft-3in wide)Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving . I would get someone else. We tried soaking the cement board and applying the kerdi in small sections. HardieBacker with Hydrodefense instead of Kerdi Board? : r/DIY - reddit When installing KERDI with unmodified thin-set mortar over particularly dry and porous substrates, it is recommended to wet the substrate first, in order to help prevent premature drying or skinning of the thin-set mortar. Regardless, cement board is a great, trusted tile substrate that will work well on both walls and floors. Ultimately, the decision between a Schlter system or a cement board comes down to the particular application and the goals the user has for the floor system. Let the mortar dry for 24 hours then test the shower. The cement board core itself is not waterproof, but it can withstand water without falling apart. Cement board is a heavy mess compared to drywall, and drywall is a heavy mess compared to Kerdi Board. To properly seal a cement board for a shower, its important to first properly prepare the surface. Continuing Education for Architects & Designers. First, felt paper is stapled to the floor and covered with expanded metal lath. But there are downsides. We installed cement board on the walls, and today when we attempted to apply the Kerdi membrane we could not get it to adhere. #1 - Backer board has nothing to do with HD or any other big box. Kerdi Shower Pan and Cement Board Walls - DIY Home Improvement Forum KERDI was developed as a waterproofing membrane to be used in . You still use metal lath, but then mix bags of powder and pour the soupy mix onto the floor. It is a topical waterproofing layer that is put over the substrate to keep water from getting to the wood frame and nails. there should be a small gap between the backer board and the tub. If you can avoid that, the demo would be ~easy enough to maybe have some friends who'd work for beer come over and help you knock it out. if you go with vapour barrier, then cement board. Keep in mind, that, just to be safe, most professionals choose to install a waterproofing membrane on top of the cement board when installing in wet locations like tub surrounds or showers. I also used the Kerdi drain. Fiber cement board is available in 1/4-inch and 1/2-inch thicknesses. This is the traditional tile backer. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Also, apply the acrylic mastic between the Create curved designs around pipes or columns using the vertically-grooved KERDI-BOARD-V, or use L-shaped KERDI-BOARD-E panels to enclose similar. Ratings (91) (5) (91) (3 . Aquadefense is approved by IAPMO for use as a shower pan liner, but be sure to check your local building codes, as some areas of the country still require the PVC liner. Answer (1 of 3): Schluter recommends applying Kerdi over drywall for walls, however, my local building code will not permit this practice - the local building code requires cement backer on the walls of a shower enclosure, therefore, I have done this successfully many times. About an argument in Famine, Affluence and Morality, Acidity of alcohols and basicity of amines. You don't want to block off the end of the air chanel and trap half a sheet worth of air under there.-Not paying attention to the direction of my knife. This means that even if your waterproofing system leaks, the cement board will remain intact. What can a lawyer do if the client wants him to be acquitted of everything despite serious evidence? Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. (3ft-3in wide). We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried using a larger notch trowel, but nothing seems to make the Kerdi stick. Thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is best for interior projects, but if youre installing outdoors, you should use thinset with a polymer modified (PM) compound for greater moisture resistance. In a perfect job, it will waterproof. Modified vs. Unmodified Mortar With Kerdi Membranes To put things into perspective, consider that a tile floor is made up of three layers: the subfloor, the underlayment, and the tile surface you walk on. Sealing the tub flange for tile: 3 methods - DIYTileGuy I also used the Kerdi drain. A square foot of half-inch thick cement board weighs roughly 40 ounces, while the equivalent area of a Wedi board weighs about 75% less. Cement board is a bit better, but you need to spray either one before applying the mortar so that it doesn't "skin over" before you can get the Kerdi up. So long as the seams and joint areas are properly prepared, the panels can also provide waterproofing. Think about movement. Kerdi board is a kind of waterproofer because these kinds of boards are made of XPS foam. Do the prefab Schluter niches like the double unit 12 by 28shelf have a built in pitch to the bottom and middle shelves to drainoff water as shown in niche that you built in that thread? you should still water proof with a liquid membrane product like RedGuard. To ensure that the Kerdi is completely dry prior to tiling, inspect the inside of the membrane for any signs of moisture or condensation. The drywall's back side fails, and it's just as bad or worse than it was on the tile side. It allows you to easily and quickly create tile-ready elements in bathtub surrounds and platforms, vanities, showers, shelving, and much more. Since my guys and I will be doing this for the first time next week, I 'd like to take advantage of your 'learning curve.' What are the differences between "paperless drywall" and "cement board"? What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? "thanks in advance :-) I know so little about this stuff, but when I watch videos (made by schluter-kerdi) everything looks so tidy and perfect - maybe that's not realistic'''" - Lisa Jasper It should look better than that and it's hard to tell but the wall stud spacing looks extreme and more than 16" I could not see if the screw heads where covered in the photos and in the one picture you can see that the screw and washer fitting where not covered. Overall, waterproofing behind and around shower tile is a critical part of any installation to ensure that the area is adequately protected from water and moisture damage. How do I connect these two faces together? This will help to ensure that all drywall is completely covered. Sloped Shower Tray KST1220/1525 - The Home Depot. Fixing that is not that easy though. The Kerdi/Daltile TS underlayments do have some valid applications such as in steam shower installations where a bullet proof vapor barrier is required. . I think it is engrained in me to do that so I forget to mention it. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. Why does the plumbing rough need to be moved? As far as the tile/prep work, you are right that he is shifting the blame. The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. As a contractor, I have been using Kerdi since it came out. #2 - Your suggestion has plenty of merit though. One of the major benefits of opting for Kerdi Board over cement board is the ease of installation. The Kerdi-Line prefab pans and drains make me feel way more comfortable with the waterproofing. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. The product involves an extruded polystyrene foam panel, with specialized reinforcement materials on both sides. There are many different types of underlayment to choose from, but they all serve the same purpose. Cement board is a mineral-based board, usually 30 inches by 60 inches, that is used as a lower, dimensionally stable surface for installing ceramic tile, porcelain tile, or stonework. Can you remove tile from Kerdi membrane? Thanks. Je peux rejeter les cookies non essentiels en cliquant sur Grer mes prfrences . The bag says Mapei floortile mortar, it was the only unmodified thinset at our hardware store. Step 6: Choosing the Next Tile. Kerdi Board Vs. Cement Board (What's The Difference?) - Home Mindset KERDI BOARD: Waterproof Your Shower in 1 Day - Home Repair Tutor All it takes is the right preparation. Kerdi Board is suitable for a number of interior applications. Keep in mind that most tile setters err on the side of caution and brush a waterproofing membrane on top of cement board when it is in wet areas like showers or tub surrounds. WATCH HERE: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3TRLd2HYhbU&list=PLO47JMsdYGrkxM_ZkOc3lMnsVhTqj80bB#justdoityourself #lovingit #p. When installed, Kerdi Board creates a substrate that is level, flat, square, plumb, and dimensionally stable. Schluter Kerdi 108 Sq Ft Waterproofing Membrane - amazon.com We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried . Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? We mixed the thinset, it wasn't as smooth as the utube video, but it was close, and we gave it ten minutes. I don't want to use the Ditra membrane product but rather tiles directly over the cement boards. They are absorbed into the surface material and help keep moisture away from the substrate surface. Are there tables of wastage rates for different fruit and veg? Here's how to get it right the first time, If you've got a steady hand, a few easy-to-find supplies and patience, you can install a tile backsplash in a kitchen or bathroom, Step 4 in swapping your tub for a sleek new shower: Pick your waterproofing materials and drain, and don't forget to test, Work with your contractors and installers to ensure a safe, stylish curb that keeps the water where it belongs, Get the benefits of a time-honored ritual without firing up the coals, thanks to easier-than-ever home steam systems, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, Out With the Old Tile: 8 Steps to Prep for Demolition, Convert Your Tub Space Into a Shower Waterproofing and Drainage, Steam Showers Bring a Beloved Spa Feature Home. Redgard is a similar product. The Pros and Cons of Various Tile Backers | Family Handyman To install Kerdi Membrane, start by applying Schulter ALL-SET mortar (or similar) to your cement board substrate using a 1/4" x 3/16" V-Notch Trowel. Hardie board is thirsty, but that's way too fast. Sweeby-Can you clarify- I undestood that the thinset would tend to dry out from the thirsty hardi or skim over from the air; so how does booking the Kerdi help with the first? Will add it in. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. RedGard can be used on a wide range of interior and exterior surfaces. After priming, use an approved adhesive to adhere the KERDI membrane to the drywall, making sure the edges are well sealed and joints are tight.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4','ezslot_12',156,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4-0'); A successful installation of KERDI requires well-prepared surfaces and a proper application, so take the time to properly prime the drywall before installation. ! How "tidy" does the kerdi band need to be? Though, each product comes with its own individual characteristics, and pros and cons. This makes Kerdi Board suitable for a wide variety of interior applications, including kitchen countertops. Cross your fingers and hope it's all OK. Not the best Kerdi Showcase. Hello D Zak! With so many different types of underlayment to choose from, it can be hard to decide which is best for your project. Additionally, all thin-set should be allowed to cure for 24 hours before tiles are installed. Best Cement Boards for the Shower - The Spruce Retired Moderator - Theatre Guy (and computers). We don't expect people to master this and in fact I know maybe two guys in my area (live in big city) that could do this. Foam-core tile backing board has two big advantages over other backer boards. It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. Rolling pin, good, now I can throw away my magnesium float.LOLCasey. RedGard can be applied to cement board panels in two ways: Roll it on the wall with a 3/4-inch nap roller or spray it on the wall. There are numerous ways to do this. Once the primer is completely dry, use a roller or brush to apply a coat of your chosen KERDI membrane adhesive over the entire surface of the wall, overlapping the edges slightly for full coverage. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. Kerdi-Board panels allow the installer to prepare and create a broad range . But I can't give you a +1 because telling someone to mortar all the walls in a large shower is like telling them to make an ice sculpture. If so, that means breaking up the floor pan. By the time you switch from the RG application to the Kerdi installation, it should be dry. Using cement board and a sheet membrane . The Schlter system tends to be more durable than a cement board, but it also depends on the particular application and the weather. Kerdi membrane is a waterproofing material that is designed to be used in wet areas such as bathrooms and showers before tiles are installed. Kerdi's systems are fairly reputable. But a mortar bed does have advantages. This is often accomplished by filling any holes and cracks in the wall with appropriate spackling or patching material. We recommend our users to update the browser. I used this to seal a 3 1/2 by 6 1/2 foot shower with 7 foot walls. Your email address will not be published. Will be replacing tub shower combination with tiled shower in my home. Step 7: Cut the Tile. liquid waterproofing (redgard) over durock cement board - bathroom Ceramic Tile Advice Forums - John Bridge Ceramic Tile, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4HjHT6_cUo, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEt6irjJCI0, My master suite addition & full bath to 1/2 bath renovation. How can I find out which sectors are used by files on NTFS? When having to put it up on the wall or measure it for size, you will find that you can get the exact measurements you need without much trouble. When applying Kerdi membrane to cement board, the edges and seams of the membrane must be lapped, meaning that each layer should overlap the portion underneath it by a minimum of two inches. The perfect fold is tricky and many of my first steam showers where built without the sealed slip joint. Kerdi board, on the other hand, is an extruded polystyrene foam panel. Houzz Pro: One simple solution for contractors and design pros, surfer thanked Avanti Tile & Stone / Stonetech. Building Panel: Price $ 119 00 $ 202 06 $ 279 00. What I would be most scared off is the fact that no inside or outside corners appear to have been used. Yes. It works well, is what Schluter recommends and I've never had an issue with it. Being a Los Angeles resident, Jessica spends a lot of her time looking for her next DIY project and sharing her love for home design. In general, the Schlter system is typically more expensive than a cement board, and some people may find this an attractive option for its long lasting, easy to maintain qualities. Shouldn't take too long, maybe an hour or so. All it takes is the right preparation. Cement board and grout are not water proof, if there's Kerdi no moisture is ever going to be able to get behind it. I have watched it done 10-15 times, have good skills, and if I tried to make large mortar walls myself it might like a little kid threw up concrete Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? Set ceramic and stone tile over the KERDI membrane with unmodified thin-set mortar, including large format tiles. builder, anti-builder, rebuilder -- Retired Moderator. It's a lightweight polystyrene board faced with Kerdi that comes in various thicknesses that you can use in place of drywall or cement board. Should I redo this wall to avoid a mold sandwich? Prime first to create a flat, uniform surface that is free of dust, grease and other debris. The major drawback to cement boards is their weight, as they are incredibly heavy and can be difficult to cut. I posted a plea for help and Mongo and Bill both gave me good advice. BTW the older Kerdi thread referencedwas excellent. I still wet the walls first. But that doesn't address your question, so it's just a comment, not an answer as such. When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. Given the complexity, its easy to see why even experienced tile setters avoid dry-pack mortar and use backer board instead when they can. I always install it over cement board or backerboard, never over drywall, even blueboard or the mold resistant greenboard. It costs more but it;s worth it for the ease of install IMO. Once the wall is prepped, use a primer that is compatible with the KERDI membrane so that it will properly adhere to the wall. While cement board is a reliable tile underlayment, it isnt completely waterproof only water-resistant. Also are you saying that you wet ("booking the Kerdi") the Kerdi, as well? When it comes to installation, a Schlter system is typically easier to install than a cement board, and it also allows for more design freedom as it does not require a traditional waterproof layer. Kerdi Membrane Over Greenboard (Is It Recommended?) DIYers on this forum seem to have nothing but problems with Hardi. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. This will help you achieve the best results and ensure the longevity of your project. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-leader-2','ezslot_21',165,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-leader-2-0');Once the seams are sealed, lay down a waterproof coating to the floor and walls of the shower space. They can be installed on any type of support and can even be used to create partitions, with no structural support required. I hang Kerdi on cement board and fibercement board all the time. Furthermore, if another trade, such as the shower glass installers, makes a mistake then you'll be . In order to determine which tile underlayment is right for your project, you need to know which issue youre trying to solve whether its preventing subfloor cracks from transferring to the tile, soundproofing, moisture protection, or providing more rigidity to the tile. When applying the thin-set, it should be applied in such a way that it fully fills any empty space between the Tile and Schluter product and is solid enough to support the weight of the tiles being installed. Euler: A baby on his lap, a cat on his back thats how he wrote his immortal works (origin? Kerdi Board is expensive, but I can justify it because it saves time, and it's a joy to use. It also helped me to work in smaller sheets. What changes do you suggest to make Bathroom looks more updated? Why are Suriname, Belize, and Guinea-Bissau classified as "Small Island Developing States"? True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. Kerdi is not a user friendly product, and when you shrink your working time down it is downright stressful. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? This thread is 9 years old and it's the Hardi board that's thirsty not the Kerdi. Why you use cement board? ", Signed,Never Hung Kerdi A Day In Her Life. Run a damp towel over the cement board surface to dust . Hardie board is a cement-based siding product that is water-resistant, but not waterproof. . Can you put Kerdi over cement board? - TipsFolder.com Will use the Schluter Shower system. The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese. Wedi Board vs Cement Board vs Kerdi Board - The Ultimate Home Living Blog KERDI features a modified polyethylene (PEVA) core with non-woven polypropylene on both sides to anchor the membrane in the thin-set mortar. You just need a hammer and wonderbar for the walls. Why unmodified thinset with kerdi? - qyvxl.dixiesewing.com She grew up surrounded by constant home improvement projects and owes most of what she knows to helping her dad renovate her childhood home. How to install a kerdi membrane over cement backer board - Quora Water-resistant gypsum board, or green board, was used in the past as a tile backer but is no longer recommended, mainly because better products are available. When I do another shower I'll use real cement board, not Hardi-board. This is a very effective and popular method of installing tile, and one that ensures the tile doesnt crack. rev2023.3.3.43278. Kerdi can be installed first on drywall or cement board.
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