6l80 vs 10l80 transmission 6l80 vs 10l80 transmission

This transmission is the result of a collaborative effort with General Motors. Do you thing the 10L80 can be beefed up using 10L90 parts? While working on a 2017-2018 Ford F150/Raptor, 2018 Expedition, Mustang, and Lincoln Navigator equipped with a 10R80 transmission, you may experience erratic TCC operation, or a TCC shudder concern. Much akin to the GM 10L80-E & 10L90-E transmissions is the 10R80 transmission's oil pump. If the warmer is not mounted to the transmission, refer to factory information to locate it. Maximum engine input torque for the 6L80 is 440 ft. lbs. this means that dimension "C" is usually longer than dimension "B". Indirectly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling. Its valuable to know that the debris you are seeing in the pans of all of those 6L80 and 6L90 units is very often from converter failure. Essentially what TCI did was to engage the overdrive at the back of the trans to split the gear spread between the original First and Second gear ratios and again between Second and Third. if the car would be faster with the 6 speed auto vs the 10 speed auto. At part pedal, when acceleration is brisk, single-step upshifts would result in very frequent shift events (a very short time in gear). 8L80E To be honest, we arent 100% sure of the real reason for JMBX cover and piston failure, but we do have a theory. It features a dry weight of ~195 lbs. The 6L80 is doubtless a very successful OEM transmission, and a terrific conversion transmission in the right Jeeps and situations. The thicker JMBX piston cant conform to the cover (like it can in the 4L60-E TMBX), and at a commanded slip rate of approximately 50 RPMs in lockup, there is ultimately metal-to-metal contact that occurs between the front cover and the piston. Related Articles ATI introduces new e-clutch hub for ZF8HP51 Sonnax adds new stator support bushing for Ford 6F35 Alto adds to intermediate clutch PowerPack line for GM transmissions According to Sonnax, the heavy OE LFS, GFX announced a new pump component for GM Powerglide models, covering several vintage model years: 1950 through 1973. Account. Thank You.. Jef, Swapping a LS3 and 6 spd trans in , In place of a 454 and a turbo 400 3 spd, I currently have posi rear, Big yolk drive shaft, after the conversion, will i need to mess with the rear gear, or will I be ok for around town and occasional red light duel. The 6L80, adapted and ready for a Jeep Dana 300 and the Jeep New Process transfer cases. Im with you on AFM is crap. Spin losses (i.e. Its extremely important to scan all modules for codes and address those codes first! Read more columns from our Shift Pointers series here. The 10-speed first appeared in the 2017 Camaro ZL1 backing up the 650-horsepower, supercharged 6.2L engine. However some 2wd vans and HD truck versions had a, J Series Trucks & Wagons, (I6 Each clutch is controlled by a corresponding shift solenoid A-F. OPTION 2- The newer and still somewhat mysterious 6L80e has a very enticing ratio selection (4.02, 2.36, 1.53, 1.15, 0.85, 0.67) that should allow the engine to stay within it's "power band" resulting in more usable power. By reducing the rpm drop between gears, the engine remains within its power band. As the installer was pumping fluid into the transmission from the right side of the vehicle, he was having a difficult time getting it full. This is a normal and desired behavior. What is a good torque converter today for a 4.3 high output 4 wheel drive Blazer? Engine | Drivetrain | Powertrain Technical Discussions, https://www.delphi.com/dynamic-skip-fire-1. This seems to indicate that there will be other 10L80 transmissions that will be experiencing this same new kind of pump noise condition. Use it to verify the vehicle has a M30 4L60ENow, if the transmission is out of the vehicle (or if you dont trust a sticker), the 6L80E has an 18 bolt case. This is the abridged version of my problem. Thanks to the optimal gear spacing, the engine RPM only drops approximately 20% when the 10L80 changes gear. The idea behind this conversion offers multiple overlapping advantages. After an internal inspection of your transmission, we will notify you of any hard part damage that will carry an additional cost. It has a line pressure tap for diagnostic purposes. Recently, they received a 2021 GMC Yukon with a very unusual sound coming from the front of its 10L80 transmission. Statements on 6L80E trans with LS engine. 10R80 transmission swap? The Sonnax forged covers and pistons are designed to be flat and will stay that way through the forces of converter welding, miles of driving and varying input torque from the engine. 6L80/90 - 8L90 Floor Tap Shifter Kit. Interestingly enough, it was not long after this that Brian received another 10L80 with the same issue to resolve. The stator shaft support housing comes with these gears as one assembly. Its been on the road for a few years, and were starting to see some common failures for this unit. Related Articles Are you ready to rock in 2023? Specifications The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. The 6L90 transmission is slightly longer and taller than a comparable configuration 6L80 due to its beefier internals. If you know the RPO code for the transmission you are golden. The 6L80E went mostly into large vehicles with V8 motors. In fact the input torque rating is 440 lb. Sonnax is an industry leader in the cutting edge design, manufacture and distribution of the highest quality products to the automotive aftermarket, commercial vehicle industries, and industrial sectors utilizing drivetrain technology. R.F. This means that its designed for rear wheel drive vehicles only. SEE, I think it's a 15 pin plug and two wires change on the plug fro 95 to. DESIGNED FOR GEN V LT1 & LT4 ONLY. It has factory size tires 275/55/20. The height of the standpipe tube attached inside the transmission to the bottom of the pan sets the oil level. to 885 ft. Check out delicious pictures and movies from Peter Mrup, Dennis Andersson and Svein Pedersen. (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, Fit-all), (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet, BOP, Fit-all), (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet/removable), 1991-Later (bellhousing pattern - Chevrolet), (see also capacity of fluid in the converter. The 6L80 denotes that the transmission is a 6-Speed, Longitudinally mounted, and for 8000 lbs. Internal hydraulic leakage, hard part failures and contaminated/failed solenoids are all issues that can plague units, some more than others. The traditional small-block six-bolt bellhousing pattern is the best and easiest way to identify a 4L60E style transmission if you find one at the swap meet for sale. $499.00. This transmission is out of a Tur. The factory 4L80Eand the stronger 4L85is essentially a traditional TH-400 three-speed automatic equipped with a fourth, overdrive gear. While Sonnax makes every effort to ensure the accuracy of technical articles at time of publication, we assume no liability for inaccuracies or for information which may become outdated or obsolete over time. The 10R80 doesn't have a traditional "front" pump. Copyright 2023 - Transmission Repair Cost Guide. The GM 10L80/90 transmissions began production in 2017, meaning that were closing in on six years of this transmission being on the road. The OE cover and piston are damaged to the point of not being reusable this is where all of the metal you find in the transmission comes from! The 6L80 features a generously deep first gear for an automatic, making for favorably powerful starts from a standing stop. Knowledge is power use it to protect your customer, your unit and yourself for miles and miles to come. But tall highway gearing arent the only way that this transmission maximizes efficiency. Please help>> I have a 2013 GMC yukon. The GM Hydramatic 6L80 transmission heralds a significant change in the design of automatic transmissions at General Motors. 60 mph with cruise on going down hill and truck will start down shifting. Some Tahoe and Yukon HD 6.0L, not hybrid, may also have this transmission but most have 6L80 or a 10 speed 10L80. It is a dog in the summer time. Smith began writing for Car Craft magazine in 1979 and became editor in 1984. The General Motors Hydra-Matic 10-speed 10L80 automatic transmissions is a heavy duty (high performance) variant of the Hydra-Matic 10LXX transmission family. When cutting the JMBX open, converter rebuilders report that a high percentage of units show extreme damage due to the clutch piston and front cover crashing into each other (Figure 1). After programming, perform the Adaptive Learning Drive Cycle and reevaluate the vehicle. Shift the transmission to Reverse. In this video I show how to change flush the transmission fluid and filter on a 2012 Chevrolet Silverado with 6.2L with the 6 speed automatic 6L80E A P59 PCM controlled both the engine and the transmission. * DOES NOT INCLUDE A DRIVESHAFT OR CROSSMEMBER. Specialized manifold for 10L80,10L90, 8L90, 6L80, and 6L90 transmissions, allowing you to connect -6AN fittings to your cooler lines. Ive heard a little about thisdid they add two more gears to the transmission? Brake pedal position: Directly affects shift scheduling and TCC scheduling, Air/fuel management adaptive values reset. Swapping to this transmission is currently difficult from an electronic control standpoint. TRU-STREET 10L90E TRANSMISSION W/ 1800 STALL LOCK UP CONVERTER. The Transmission Control Module (TCM) is an adaptive learning, 32-bit computer integrated into the valve body of the 6L80 / 6L90 and communicates with the Engine Control Module via the onboard vehicle CAN bus network. For both types A and B, a freeze-frame record will be stored in memory if the MIL illuminates. Intermittent Fail Safe, Codes, Related Concerns and Solutions, The ZF 8-Speed Transmission Fluid and Filter Change, Tackling Clutch Failure in the GM 6L80/90, Change is in the Air Installing Updated Calibrations. For all practical purposes, these two transmissions are completely interchangeable. If the transmission fluid is discolored or has evidence of debris in the fluid, it would be recommended to replace the torque converter and flush the system to complete this repair. Looking at the two different front covers from the OUTSIDE, they are very similar, with just a few minor differences (Figure 2). Since buying the car I have been trying to learn a bit about the auto trans. What all needs to be done to change it from four-wheel-drive to 2 Wheel Dr? When diagnosing this unit, it is very important to realize that the failure management programs built into the powertrain system may be a direct reflection of the customers drivability complaint. (You can unsubscribe anytime), ATRA In 2006, GM superceded Dexron III as the recommended fill with Dexron VI, which is backwards compatible with the earlier versions. The way the power is applied is different than the 4L80E / TH-400. Efficiency and performance are the two main goals behind the GM 10L80 transmission. Diagnosis and correction of a max line pressure condition may become, With Hondas 10-speed front wheel drive transmission (see Figure 1, above) going into its fifth year on the roads, its feasible that one may show up in your shop for service. Then, because the six-speed is splitting ratios, the rpm drop between gears is less because TCI has turned this into a five-speed automatic with an overdrive. Dissecting the E-Ray, the First Hybrid AWD Vette. Pre-Owned. The complaint A Ford vehicle equipped with the FNR5 transmission has a complaint of a severe slipping condition in reverse. That way you get a longer service life, along with a 3-year/Unlimited Mile Nationwide Warranty.. By Wayne Colonna. Problem Owners may experience an ATF leak coming from under the vehicle. Once there is any metal-to-metal on the TCC surface at all, its usually a short time before debris wipes out the clutch completely. Objectively, it is a fairly simple repair: simply remove the transmission pan, remove the valve body, unbolt the TEHCM from the valve body and install the new one. When its enabled at low speeds the exhaust tone becomes muffled, the AFM valves clatter open and closed, v4 vibration and increased injector noise is nothing but annoying, especially with a convertible. The 6L80 would have big shoes to fill, with legendary predecessors like the TH400, 4L80E and 4L60E transmissions. To give you a sense of scope, for every single forged replacement cover that Sonnax sells for the 4L60-E TMBX, we sell many, many more for the 6L80/90 JMBX. With this in mind, there are (3) major groups of failure management strategies that are used when certain diagnostic trouble codes are present. RPO Code MF6 Third 2.15 It can also be found in the Lincoln Navigator. My problem with the 4L80E is it was always a workhorse and in the past 25-30 years trucks have gotten much quicker and versatile. We had to use a spacer from Advanced Adapters but otherwise they are the same. Starting with the 2017 Ford F-150, the 10R80 transmission was an option. The ideal upgrade for modified performance vehicles, Sonnax 3-bolt adapter flange yoke kit T35-GMFD-01K makes it easy to convert a two-piece driveline to a one-piece, U-joint-style driveline. * An extension housing p/n 8673406 (old p/n 24214689) is available for the TH700R4/4L60 transmission that moves the rear transmission mount to the same position as a TH400 (short-style 4" tail) or TH200-4R transmission. Click Get a Free Estimate for an unbeatable price on a replacement remanufactured transmission. GM 6L80 and 6L90 units are now starting to reach their prime age in the repair cycle, and techs across the country are starting to see a consistent pattern of transmission failures with full-size 6L80, 6L90 vehicles. In fact, there are absolutely no cast-iron components, including the 10L80 stator support. Would love your thoughts, please comment. Thanks Jeff. The 1-piece aluminum case houses a slim 260mm 10L80 torque converter inside the integrated bell housing. Gm hydro 10 speed. For a type A code, the MIL will illuminate after one drive cycle with the malfunction present. The 8L90E is an 8 speed automatic transmission developed by General Motors and introduced for the 2015 Model year. Double-step (skipping a gear) upshifts results when a longer time is spent in gear. Powertrain Expo LS 3 has a Big Turbo on it, I am only worried about rear gear, rest I have help with, Car never went over 130 or it red lined with Big Block, Never was a highway car, It has a 373 or a 323 in it, Not a 411 I know that much, Thats all, Im building a gen one Camaro and Ive purchased lt4 supercharged motor for it I was wanting to know if you know the difference in size for 10 speed transmission to a turbo 400 I need to know how much to raise my floor pan at tunnel and about how much fire wall to cut out. JT. The solenoids are calibrated from the factory and are not all the same. You might run into a lack of valve body repair options. This drives up the price of the rebuilt converter, but ensures that this kind of failure wont happen again. Did they release much info about it on the trucks? Since these are straight cut gears, they will tend to be somewhat noisy. Copyright 2006-2020 GEARS Magazine. Our simulations reveal that this is worth anywhere from 0.10 to perhaps 0.15-second in a quarter-mile comparison between a stock 4L80E and a TCI Six-Speed. But before you have a brand induced meltdown, lets look at all the things that make the 10L80 transmission so unique. ** Currently 10L80 units are 2017+ so are dealer-only or salvage yard only. So its no wonder that the new cars accelerate so welltheyve got a ridiculously deep overall First gear ratio and reduced rpm drops between the gear changes. Other common 6L80E transmission problems include: Or did the OE stamped steel cover and piston flex and twist to the point that the clutch surface was not flat, causing a premature friction failure? Respectfully, Len Gilbert Kitchener ON Canada. Wait 3-5 minutes before driving. The 6L80 in its transaxle version for the Corvette. None of the clutch packs can engage, and there is no fail-safe operation. It is a heavy duty version of the 6L80 six speed automatic with a strengthened input gearset which has two additional pinion gears for six total and a strengthened output gearset that uses wider gears than the 6L80. As you build the best transmission that you can for your customer, you should consider including an updated torque converter in the repair estimate. 2wd transmissions feature conical shaped tailhousings and an output yoke, which are replaced with a typically shorter 4wd style output shaft of varying lengths and spline counts, depending on the application. It's RPO code is "MYC" and it is domestically manufactured in GM's Ypsilanti, Michigan plant. Longitudinal transmissions [ edit] Aisin AR5/MA5 5-speed longitudinal manual made by Aisin. The 10R80 transmission is a 10-speed, rear-wheel-drive transmission that is controlled by a PCM or a TCM. Chevrolet Transmission Dimensions Dimension "C" is the distance from the bellhousing to the center of the transmission mounting pad. document.getElementById( "ak_js_1" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Continue to accelerate (may apply slightly more throttle after 7-8 upshift at 32-38 mph (51-61 km/h) until you achieve 55 mph (88 km/h) and the 8-9 and 9-10 shifts complete. Retiring Early The Transmission Industry Has Been a Dream Come True, A two-piece valve body with eight solenoids. Customers' pictures and movies from drag racing competitions. vehicle weights. Tested: 2023 BMW M4 CSL Is a Track Monster. You know where this is going yup, its the converter. Grade braking and clutch line pressure (for greater holding power) are additionally great features that are activated by Tow / Haul mode on the truck platforms. Note: The mounting pad is usually a part of the extension housing, but the graphic shows it on the maine case. The 6L80 was approved for use in these vehicles weighing up to 8600 lbs. None of the above categories describe me. The subject is a rather common electrical fault that may occur on the PCS line pressure solenoid circuit, which results in max line pressure. Then to create a new Second gear, the overdrive is engaged 2.97 x 0.75 = 2.23:1. This is a completely new and different transmission compared to the 4L80E. if (yr!=2012) Both covers have very similar profiles and thicknesses, and you would not expect that one would be any more prone to flex or distortion than the other. The question is will the 10L80 be as strong as the 10L90? Shift the transmission to Drive. Engine torque estimate: Directly affects shift pressure control, TCC control, and transmission diagnostics. Beginning with the F-150, it then made its way into the Mustang and the Expedition (as well as the Everest, and upcoming Ranger reboot). Because of this, the 6L80 - despite having two or three more gears than its predecessors, is unexpectedly short in length. A 2005 Ford F350 with the 6.0 liter diesel engine and 5R110W transmission has set a P0753 Pressure Control Solenoid A - Electrical Fault code and a P2700 Transmission Friction Element A - Apply Time Out Of Range code. Your email address will not be published. Its a little tough to see, but the thickness of the pistons is also different. The TCM-2650 is compatible with the GM 6L45/50, 6L80/90 . Sonnax has a line of upgrade parts that address some of the 6L80 and 6L90 transmission weaknesses. I believe the last digits of the model number are the power rating capabilities of the transmission. As a transmission rebuilder, you know that flatness and rigidity of both apply and reaction surfaces are key to long clutch life in transmission clutch packs its the exact same in the torque converter. TIPM Problems! It also contains a durable transmission pan, reliable gear seat, EPC, a 13-vane pump assembly, high-performance cooler, hardened stator shaft with rings and specialized control solenoids. Trans temps climbed to 195 and has stayed there ever since. The 6L80 was, from the ground up, developed as an electric over hydraulic transmission with microprocessor control. Honda CR-V Hybrid Racer Is an 800-HP Test Bed. Nothing but problems with it big clunks, engine revs up before grabbing a gear. After graduating from Iowa State University with a journalism degree in 1978, he combined his two passions: cars and writing. Running 12.60s at 111 is a fun ride! At the current time, the only way to use a GM 6 or 8-speed automatic is to tie it in with a GM engine like the LS3 and use the engine controller to work with transmission. Like earlier automatics, the 6L80 features one line pressure tap available for testing and diagnostic purposes. 97 it's a, I have a 2007 h3 hummer base model. By utilizing more gearing, the 6L80 keeps the car in its power band longer, improving the MPG of the vehicle between 4-7% (over the previous generation fours speed transmissions) depending on the configuration of the vehicle that its in. Developed with upgraded internal components, Chevrolet Performance's SuperMatic 6L80-E 6-speed automatic transmission offers an exceptional torque rating of 650 lb.-ft. - a 45 percent increase over regular production versions of the 6-speed automatic. The original first three gear ratios are in fact still the same as the TH-400. Shift stabilization is achieved through these and similar strategies. Reverse 4.87. Drive the vehicle until the engine and transmission reach normal operating temperature. (incl. Need to convert 10L80 rom 4wd to 2wd. or Best Offer . Indirectly affects shift control. Most full-size trucks and SUVs with a 6L80, 6L90 use a JMBX full-size (300mm) style converter. The new 10-speed combo is 4.70 x 2.85 = 13.39:1. All previous GM automatic transmissions were virtually all based on hydraulic controls, and received increasing electrical elements as they modernized. Lets talk about some of the concerns and fixes we have been seeing. The 6l80 was designed to handle the torque output of some of GM's biggest late-model LS (gen 4) and LT (gen 5) v8 engines, but a number of design flaws created most of the common 6L80E transmission problems. Ford is currently using this unit in the following vehicles: 2017- Ford F-150 2018- Ford Mustang 2018- Ford Expedition 2018- Lincoln Navigator 2019- Ford Ranger 2019- Ford Everest Its only about a 3/4-inch band around the inside circumference of the converter. Thats right, you can find a variation of this Ford GM 10-speed automatic transmission in the Ford Mustang GT and the Chevrolet Camaro ZL1! Brian at Tommy Boys Performance, however, has the opportunity to work with a local dealership assisting them when their workload gets heavy. As an example, combining the TCI Six-speeds 2.97:1 First gear with a 3.50:1 rear gear ratio is equal to a traditional TH-400 (or stock 4L80E) with a 4.19:1 rear gear.